Limitless Pixelmon 

  • Elite 4 Plans and Increased Competitive Play

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 #18471  by Dankdra
 
This is related to Mine, LolopFace’s, jjtwilefc’s and NicoNicoKneez’s plan for an increased competitive aspect to the server, giving a higher final goal for experienced players beyond the gyms and occasional tournaments. As in the name, it will consist of an officially sanctioned elite four, which upon beating, the player will earn a custom rank of [Champion].
As a starting point the Elite Four members would be us four, as jjtwilefc, Dankdra and NicoNicoKneez win the tournaments regularly, and we have all built and designed this system. Elite Four replacements would naturally happen,
That was a basic summary. Here below in the subsections are the details for this plan:

How it would run
(See designs for the layout of the building)
The challenger would use a specific /warp elitefour command to warp to the victory road + official elite four (E4) building. There would be five rooms, which MUST be done sequentially, first the elite four, then the champion if there is a current one defending. Unlike the main series games, the teams will not be type specific but will run with a theme e.g. hyper-offensive, stall etc, as this would be too easy for the players we aim to see challenge this elite four. Losing to one E4 member means you have to go back to re-challenge the first member.
All the E4 teams will be as strong as we can possibly make them, as this is meant to be a very hard feature on the server. As our teams would be constant i.e. we use the same one every time, it can make it seem easy to beat. This is where a key factor comes into play:
THE CHALLENGER MUST USE THE SAME TEAM TO BEAT EVERY MEMBER OF THE ELITE FOUR, much like in the main series games EXCEPT the player can swap ONE pokemon at each level. Obviously if you have to re-start the challenge, you can swap whatever pokes you want.

Process to beat it and requirements for challengers
You would not have to beat the Elite Four all in one day. There would be a separate discord group for the champion + members where we can share your team, to maintain the constant team rule, and to notify that the next member needs to arrange a battle with you, the challenger, soon. The original E4 members are all agreed to battle a challenger within 3 days of them beating the previous member.
Obviously we don’t want to have randoms or less skilled players challenging us every day, so we have suggested these be the basic requirements to challenge:
• Won at least 10 gym badges
• If it wasn’t possible due to lack of gyms, they would need to have beaten all the active gyms, the battle tower and have a full team
• Mega Bracelet
Unlike the main series games, there is no defending champion, only the E4

Champions
The champion custom prefix is for life, no matter if others beat the E4 or if the E4 changes. Their name will also be added to the public hall of fame room at /warp EliteFour
Aside from the rank, prizes for being champion are dependable on how much Jay113355 would be happy to gift us to give out. Dknots, Rare candies, Statues are all things we would love to give out but obviously this is dependent, ultimately, on Jay113355’s opinion.
KEY – Me (Dankdra)would be the only one with commands to give out the custom prefix, as the other E4 members don’t need any commands, we’d just fight normally then record who wins, in the afore mentioned DC.


What we hope to achieve by doing this
• Add a fun, dynamic and more final goal for players old and new
• Increased competitive scene on the server
• Bring back older players to boost the server
• Fresh section of the server we all know and love

What we would need/want from Jay113355
• The official recognition of the E4, to legitimise it
• /warp EliteFour to get to the battle area
• Custom [EliteFour] and [Champion] ranks
• Prizes like dknots for champions
• Commands to help build a server area, as to make it as magnificent as we want it to be, we would prefer to spend time on quality and design rather than collecting stone ect.

We are open to suggestions and help, from all staff and players!

Further Plans and details (If interested)
Potential designs for the build
We hope to build a truly impressive structure to represent the server, and the skill of the players challenging the E4, and so we are going to use schematics. Please see the final section for more on resource collection. Here are some ideas we have so far:
• A tower with a floor per E4 member, of which they can edit to fit their own designs too, is very much the cornerstone of our ideas
• Two towers with a bridge in the middle connecting them
• Palace like the main series games one
• Mountain to ascend
• Open to suggestions!

How Champions can join the E4, and system of changing E4 members
Any new champion will be able to join the E4 (See further details) replacing
1) the E4 member who is happy to stop,
2) The most inactive of the E4 or
3) The new champion can choose who they replace.
They must decide within a week of beating the E4 if they want to replace someone. After a week they cannot just randomly decide to remove someone if they feel like it.
• If an E4 member decides to leave, or can no longer be a member, then the system is :
• 1) The most active champion rank player is asked to take the position
• 2) If there are several, it is the latest one to beat the E4
• 3) If none are highly active the invite goes to all champions to see if they would become more active
• 4) Else a highly skilled player will be chosen by the remaining E4 members.
• Further rules with replacing E4 members include: Limit of one replacement per 2 weeks, E4 cannot be replaced before they serve 3 weeks

Battling rules
• E4 have the right to refuse challengers for up to 3 days
• Any mouse/waiting glitches leads to immediate /z by challenger, then re-fight with the exact same starter poke and starting move. Failure to do this leads to immediate disqualification.
• You can re-challenge after 2 weeks
• No Ubers
• No bag items.
• See same-team rule
• Mega’s and Z-moves’ are allowed but NO DYNAMAXING
 #18475  by nijachicken
 
While I agree that this seems like a nice idea, I cannot support it. There are a few things in here that I disagree with and I think a few people can agree with me.

"As a starting point the Elite Four members would be us four, as jjtwilefc, Dankdra and NicoNicoKneez win the tournaments regularly"
While you guys do well in tournaments there are some people like BROCKxOBAMA and SirDoof who do very well in tournaments as well. Even if it is y'alls idea why does it just have to be you and your friends that are qualified. I think this should be voted on by the whole of the server, rather than some decision made by just you guys.

The "How it would run" section.
If you guys are the ones who always win tournaments then why would people ever be able to even beat you? I understand you want it to be hard but once again why does it have to be just you guys? Also there is nothing saying about healing in between matches. So does this mean that you are expected to beat 4/5 of the 'hardest' teams on the server without healing??? I would love to see a further thought out section here and wish you guys put a little more time into it. I assume that healing is allowed though due to the next section. But then I go back to a different point of you saying "with a theme e.g. hyper-offensive, stall etc," Most teams are not able to beat every type of archetype, the only real hope is to use your own stall team and hope to win.

"Process to beat it and requirements for challengers" Section
"Unlike the main series games, there is no defending champion, only the E4" Did you not say earlier that people could become the champion?
"There would be a separate discord group for the champion + members where we can share your team, to maintain the constant team rule, and to notify that the next member needs to arrange a battle with you, the challenger, soon"
So does this mean that you guys are legit gonna be able to tell the next elite 4 member of the person's full team? There is no real way to moderate that so I think that the whole elite 4 should be challenged at once.

"KEY – Me (Dankdra)would be the only one with commands to give out the custom prefix, as the other E4 members don’t need any commands, we’d just fight normally then record who wins, in the afore mentioned DC."
Why would you ever be the only person to have this command?!?!? What if you quit or become inactive? What about if you arnt on during the same times as other people from different time zones? This seems so selfish and probably one of the most ridiculous parts of this plan???

"How Champions can join the E4, and system of changing E4 members"
This whole section seems a little strange and I would love to discuss with everyone to see what their thoughts are and how we can best figure this out. I think if you guys really want help why didn't you ask all of us sooner before posting this?

Side notes:
I really like the thought of having another battling area. I also really like some of the ideas that you guys laid out before all of us and I appreciate you all trying to come up with a system. You had said in here that it is an advanced battling system, which it might be, but what about the people that have the exact same pokes but not the exact same skills. This is a survival server where everything should be possible for everyone. If all of the best battlers are here then nobody will ever win and prizes will never be given out. It takes a long time of practice to get as good as you guys claim to be, so what about the people that just cannot become as good as you guys? The idea seems nice but it's almost like a double-sided blade in the sense that on the surface we all benefit from having a fun system where we win prizes, but on the other edge the whole thing you have written here seems a little selfish and not caring for other members of the server. I would love to be able to discuss with everyone rather than just have 4 people decide the fate of such an important system.

I love the idea but I disagree. So no, I will not support this system.
 #18476  by TheDootApp
 
Personally, I think this whole elite 4 system is great. my post isnt gonna be as long as Nija's lmao.

But to me as a kid playing the Pokemon games it was such a challenge to a noobie like me back then with my lvl 99 Cobalion that i used to purely think could beat anything. I also had so much fun trying my stupidly silly teams on the elite 4 and failing miserably :lol:

However now that Ive actually become rather seasoned to Pokemon and know how to make and battle with teams it would be such a nice challenge to battle 4 of the best competitive battlers on the server, in my eyes, i love the aspect of being just a measly trainer going up against literal gods at Pokemon battling.

Personally i don't mind who is the elite 4, i reckon Dankdra and his crew would be a fine fit since they have shown their battling expertise and I reckon they get first turn of being E4 since they most likely are building it for the server.

But overall to me its absolutely fine and I 100 percent support this and if you guys need help getting materials or help with building, just lemme know and find me either on Discord or in game!
From The Dooty Boy :D
 #18478  by Celtic Centurion
 
Personally I like the concept and idea of it
I just agree with Nija in the manner that there are several areas which I believe should be reworked
I believe that:

1) I believe that the initial elite 4 shouldn't exist, bc no #1 it is effectively self appointment based on previous evidence that can be used to suggest that you could be E4 "worthy". But I also understand that the ones to construct and organise all of this, I do see the fairness in being the first if you build and design this whole system. I see that as being fair too :D and no #2 as Nija mentioned, there are several other players who excel in tournaments etc. which are being immediately excluded from this opportunity which I think it very obviously unfair to them

2) I think this should be something put in the responsibility of the staff and admin hands, and only they should have the ability to use certain commands to appoint the roles suggested. Again I believe it should be like this rather than in the hands of the E4 themselves as again that should be putting faith in your long-term commitment to the server and it just puts in "general faith" that you won't abuse the privileged to do so. And personally I don't believe "general faith" is a very smart way to run a server with 200+ active members. It not my place to tell anyone how to run the server of course I'm simply stating the risks of just entrusting a non-staff member with such commands out of just faith. Of course the person in charge could be enrolled into the existing chain of command should they complete a successful application or something like that

I do have other things but these are the ones that mainly bother me
Again, I greatly encourage the idea of a Elite 4 however I think if anything it should fall within the control of the existing chain of command rather than appointing new ppl to run this operation. Btw folks this is nothing against you I'm just looking at the fairness and functionality of the entire system, if we want it to work it has to run as smoothly as possible :D
This all just constructive I fully support the idea, it just needs to be done in a manner which is as fair as possible to everyone :D
Last edited by Celtic Centurion on Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #18483  by nijachicken
 
I'm not sure if any of you really know me that personally but what I appreciate most about pixelmon is the competitive aspect. Once I saw the plans my eyes lit right up like a little kid seeing his first fireworks show, but then I started reading it and got a little upset about some of the aforementioned parts. What I would like to say is that I really appreciate you taking the time to read and consider what I've written for you. To be honest I love the plan, I just think it needed a little baiting out for everyone to fully discuss and understand what the project at hand is going to be. Since I love the idea so much I didn't want it to be some half thrown together idea without the input of everyone. I would like to apologize for my false pretense in my first message and let you know that I love the idea. Now that we all know it's something being taken seriously I would love to help you all plan it out. Some of the things I said however were true, I don't think the power should be in just one person's hand. I'm sure you all are very nice people but I'm more worried about the 'What ifs'. In other words, I am more worried about a corrupt system where one group of people control something so 'influential'. I don't think somebody's battle prowess can be determined in one match either, everyone has their bad matches and you know that for a fact. So I agree that a point tournament might be a nice idea, however I don't think that it should a one match tournament, maybe something more similar to double elimination.

As I said I love the idea a lot, but it doesn't have to be just in your hands. I would prefer to see the whole server come together on something so important. So please consider that you guys don't have to be the only people brainstorming / breeding / building / designing, let us help. That's all I could ever ask for.
 #18485  by campislife20
 
There are 3 points I want to express here that you e4 guys are clearly neglecting, and ill do it succinctly. 1. You guys are assuming a vast majority of the people want the e4. I think we saw from the strawpoll that there were a lot of dissenting opinions. Not only that, but I think the fact that there were less than 40 votes shows how much people flat out don't care about the e4. 2. You guys were not active for a few months before coming back and requesting for the e4. As much as I and other people want to believe your 20 paragraph essay, I think there have been many people who have come in and request random functions to be added just to leave and never play again. At least stay active a few months before trying to force your ideas onto everyone. 3. There are better ways to fix the gym system/ make limitless better. Jay literally mentioned one on discord in response to this discussion. You guys are just trying to force this idea that an e4 is the best solution, but in reality, it lacks understanding of the limitless community. A majority of the people are not competitive; people who play LL want to have fun in their own way.
 #18487  by TheDootApp
 
Woah, The Trumpet is here, with some quick words in regards to camp's response. I'm never good at writing these without actually taking the time to think it out, so let's get into it!! :D

One thing that I will say, in regards to the vote, with only 40 people voting, that doesn't necessarily mean too much, since not all players are super super active on the forums, I literally only Just made a forum account the other day after so many issues making one lmao, but whenever I was on the server, whether it be in game or on discord, the forums were never really talked about unless it was ban appeals :lol: so it sorts makes sense that only 40 people voted.

With your second point, I mean sure they left, but the reasons may have actually stopped them from completely playing, Lolop's reason to me was pretty valid saying he had Uni, like I'd put my learning before my games, but that's just me of course :lol:

Also with the mention of Jay, I found that hilarious because he literally threatened to make our pokemon disobey us :lol: :lol: which honestly would be scary but I reckon it would be good to have an E4 as previously mentioned on multiple occasions, if all the gyms have been beaten by a player, it gives that player something more to do, and it does like Tino said, provide the server with a sort of end goal, which is a very good thing! But other than that, that's all I gotta say, thing that has me hyped most is actually seeing the build :lol:

From TheDootApp :D
 #18488  by Jay113355
 
Obviously if its supported by the server the e4 positions would not be locked to the players mentioned in the first post. and would be assignable by staff or someone appointed to handling the e4 or gym system as a whole.

We can have a system lock players to use the same party members between e4 fights. its as simple as storing the UUID of the pokemon used during the first fight. The harder part may be if we want to prevent them from changing the team up, E.g Would we have to store a list of all moves each pokemon has as well, to prevent people from changing moves between fights.

Instead of requiring all gyms be beaten, require x amount of gym badges. Its a simple check, and it could even be done per e4 level, e.g to attempt battling the first e4 member you need 2 badges, the second 4, and so on. However, if we lock people to the same team for all e4 challenges that would really only allow for people to test a team or get tier1, tier2 rewards before having to battle more gyms. I doubt anyone would come back to e4 at a later point with the same team as before after getting more badges.

As for rewards, I would just give out pixelpoints, Gyms should be giving out these as well, but i never enabled it due to the current state of the gym system.
 #18489  by Dankdra
 
Hi,
It seems that you’re interested in taking this further which we are very happy about. These forums aren’t a very effective way of talking, with the small details getting lost in huge paragraphs. We are very happy to set up a dc chat with you to go over everything, or a call, whatever you find easier.
As a quick response, we agree with you on most things, but we do have some different ideas too. We’d love to go through it all with you. Just message me on discord if you would like to discuss this further
-Dankdra