Limitless Pixelmon 

  • Gym Revamp - Suggestions for the new System

  • Make a suggestion for our server!
Make a suggestion for our server!
 #18948  by Denshin
 
Below are suggestions gathered from me and other members of the community regarding the Gym system's update.
This post is intended to act as a reference point for Jay, as he's implementing updates, rather than a discussion.
Due to that, please try to keep it clean. Thoughts, improvements, and arguments for/against suggestions posted here should ideally be discussed in #server-discussion-room in Discord (to avoid the thread being flooded) and edited in this post (ping me to do so once something comes up).
That being said, the suggestions:

Quicklist for later reference, details below.
===============================
G1 - Battles with pre-set parameters.
G2 - Gym leader counterpicking.
G3 - Unified rulesets, /warp gyms.
G4 - /gym battle Settings.
G5 - Gym System Rewards.
G6 - Overtaking.
===============================


G1 - Battles with pre-set parameters.

The "make the Gyms a challenge" problem is one that has existed for years. Not simply on Limitless or in Pixelmon, but in the Pokemon community in general, especially enhancement hacks (ROMs of Pokemon games having as their main goal to make the game as difficult as possible). The most effective way to approach this has been rigged battles. In many such hacks, the leaders were given an unfair advantage, in the form of weather, terrain, or others.

For example, the Fire Gym battle would take place under Sun, the Psychic Gym would be in Trick Room, etc.

EDIT: This could prove too strong, especially alongside other changes mentioned below, like counterpicking. An optimal solution could be some form of "super challenge", which exists seperately from the usual Gym Challenge, which includes challenging unfairly hard Gyms in their "full" potential. That way we get the best of both worlds.

Pros:
- Transfers part of the advantage back to the Gym Leader. Advantage is given in a way that fits the Gym theme (rather than other dull options, e.g. 5-Pokemon Challenger), resulting in memorable battles.
- It can be extremely flexible. This feature can counteract the inherent imbalance that exists between Gyms (e.g. Steel will always be a stronger mono than Ice) by adjusting the intensity of the effect. For example, depending on how strong Fire is as a Gym, you could have the battles start with X turns of sun, have indefinite Sun that can be overwritten, or even perma-sun (weather clearing/setting moves and abilities fail to activate during this, essentially forcing permanent [condition]). Ideally, these parameters would be set on acquisition of the Gym by the Staff member approving it, using /gymm commands.
- Provides battles seen nowhere else, which incentivizes both challengers and leaders to take part in them, making our server unique, and giving an answer to "why would I fight a gym when I can play Pokemon Showdown?"

Cons:
- Potentially hard to implement code-wise.
- Moves slightly away from Smogon, imbalances the tiers. It's obvious that in such battles, Smogon's tiers would not be entirely accurate. Pokemon that excel in each condition immediately become much stronger.
However, due to the fact that the leader is already at a disadvantage, and that the challenger would be able to predict what they're going to face, this is most likely not going to end up mattering.
- Needs balancing. Assuming this gets implemented, the initial state of the feature will most likely be imbalanced. Finding out the golden values of the pre-set conditions to make every Gym challenging but not too hard will almost definitely need a lot of trial and error, and effort from the players. In the longterm however, this should not be considered a con.
- It takes away from the server's vanilla competitive options.. There are certainly players who enjoy vanilla competitive Pokemon. If "gimmicks" are added to the Gym system without proper compensation (e.g. tournaments), such players will lose interest.
- Technically needs more Staff time. Staff would need to set those parameters when accepting a Gym, which would result in the process taking longer, even by a bit. However, some of the suggestions below are aimed at reducing Gym hopping, which would reduce the amount changes of positions overall.


===============================

G2 - Gym Leader being able to counterpick.

Instead of applying with 6 Pokemon and being locked to them, the Gym Leader would instead have a pool of Gym-ready Pokemon. Upon being challenged, the leader would be able to view the challenger's team (either by viewing their Trainer card, or by being granted access to /pokesee) and have a couple minutes to adjust their team.

Pros:
- Transfers part of the advantage back to the Gym Leader. Advantage is given in a way that fits the Gym theme, Gym Leaders being supposed to be "[Type] Specialists".
- Rewards good understanding of the game and your Pokemon, as well as raises the skill cap significantly, incentivizing leaders to improve.
- Hinders Gym transfering. In this system, players who bought a build and a team of 6 and applied will be at a disadvantage against leaders who actually invest time in good Gyms.
- Enables a reward-investment mechanic for Gyms. In this system, the phrase "The more [...] you spend on this gym, the better it'll be" will be true. This applies to both time (learning multiple Pokemon of the type and what they're best used against) and money (buying, trading, or breeding more 5IVs to have as options), both of which are essential for MMO-style games.

Cons:
- Certain types might become too strong. Finding the number of Pokemon allowed in the pool will be essential, and it might need to differ per Gym. A command similar to /pokesee might need to be implemented, that shows X/6 Pokemon, allowing the challenger to "hide" Pokemon.
- If the leader becomes too limited, keeping track will be impossible. If it's decided the pool is X Pokemon, neither Staff nor players would be able to moderate what Pokemon the leader brings into battle. However, this is true even in the current system.
A solution to this would be having the leader's pool being known, either by a command per gym (e.g. /gym info Ghost), or by item frames/signs.

===============================

G3 - Unified Rulesets.

Gyms will have a common ruleset. In this system, the leader has enough counterplay / compensation from the aforementioned features. Excuse-like rules like "no legends" or "no more than 2 of the same type" are just ways to brute-force some advantage on the leader. That will no longer be needed. The ruleset will be Smogon's National Dex OU, as it's the most popular and widely regarded fun format.
This can be stated in /gym rules, or a /warp gyms warp.

Pros:
- Challenges become much easier, as the player can simply bring the same team in every Gym, without needing to adjust for every Gym's custom rules. Being able to easily challenge makes the whole Gym system easier for players to dive into (especially new ones), which results in more Gym challenges overall.

Additionally, the Gym levels should be addressed . There are 3 practical options:
- Leaving them as they are, with certain Gym Leaders being fundamentaly at a disadvantage when it comes to team building.
- Raising them all to 99. This practically matches universal competitive rules, and reflects what you would encounter in Pokemon Showdown, while disallowing the usage of Silver/Gold Caps.
- Raising them all to 100.

There are arguments to be given for each option.
Leaving them as they are, enables certain niche markets, that can have positive effects longterm. (e.g. Hunting/Flexing a Rock Gym-Ready Tyranitar/Nihilego). While currently this is sub-par, if the balance features (G1, G2) are balanced around Leaders not having perfect versions of those Pokemon, the disadvantage will be covered, while Leaders who chase that rare perfect Pokemon will have a well earned, minor advantage.

Raising them to 99 reflects a competitive environment best, while incorporating the MMO aspect of the game, by making hunting for high IV legendaries optimal.

Raising them to 100 is best for a purely competitive environment. In both this and the cap of 99, regular 5IV Pokemon are unaffected due to the price of 5IVs and Silver Caps. The only difference is effectively Legendary and Genderless Pokemon.

===============================

G4 - /gym battle Settings.

The /gym battle command will bring up the UI to pick a lead, while showing both teams, instead of force starting the battle blind. Being able to estimate your Pokemon's value in-battle, based on the opponent's team, is a crucial skill that any battler should have and they should be rewarded for it. Blind-style battles just add unnecessary RNG that cannot be played around aside from predicting what your opponent might have brought.
Additionally, the leader should be able to pick between Doubles and Singles, in order for more diversity in battles.
(Set by the Staff member when approving the gym, default: Singles)

===============================

G5 - Gym System Rewards.

The current Gym System suffers from a significant oversight; There's no incentive for the players to participate. Leaders usually claim Gyms because of the ingame rank, or the "status" of simply being a Gym Leader. Challengers usually challenge simply because they're bored. Gym battles are objectively hard to get into from a new player perspective, having to adjust to a plethora of custom rules, and gaining nothing in return. Due to this, the current system consists of many Gyms being vacant (7/18 at the time of writing, including players last seen 7+ days ago),
and most Gym Leaders being end-game players who simply had nothing to do. Gym-hopping is also prevalent, as said players have no reason to keep being a leader once the initial "thrill" is over, resulting in them jumping between Gyms, and whole builds and teams being sold/transferred around. To solve these, a reward system is suggested:

Gym Leaders would have access to a kit tied to their rank. That kit would have a cooldown of X days (initial suggestion: 30) and it would contain items such as TMs (especially Alolan), Destiny Knots, Rare Candies/Curry, and Pokedollars. If possible, the kit would require the leader to be in possession of the rank for the cooldown duration, in order to avoid players taking a Gym every X days and then retiring immediately.
Additionally, every claim of the kit would award a token/point of some sort, with every Y of them being used for an extra reward. (Initial suggestion: 6 tokens for a Custom Prefix related to the Gym type, every 6 Months)

Challengers would be able to receive a basic reward of either Pokedollars or Pixelpoints per Gym win. This reward would have a cooldown per type (Initial suggestion: 30 days). This reward needs to be tied to each type, and not each leader, in order to avoid farming it by passing around a Gym.
Additionally, the player would be able to earn 2 progression-type ranks based on amount of unique Gyms beaten, one at 8 and one at 18.
The one at 8 would be purely cosmetic.
The one at 18 would grant access to a monthly kit of minor rewards, such as extra Pokedollars or Pixelpoints, as an extra income for players who have managed to defeat every Gym. Alternatively, it would grant access to an Elite 4 gauntlet, if that is implemented.

Pros:
- Incentive for both challengers and leaders to participate in the Gym system.

Cons:
- Potentially needs too much code. Leader kit keeping track of how long you've had the rank for instead of a simple cooldown, essentially a /pointshop clone with a new form of currency, at most 18 new ranks every 6 months manually added by Jay, 2 new Kits to adjust rewards for, 2 new Ranks.
- Rewards need adjusting to be rewarding without hurting the economy.

===============================

G6 - Overtaking.

Overtaking needs to account for effort put in building, as well as effort in learning and improving with the Gym's type. To account for both, the new system is as follows:

- For an overtake attempt to begin, the player overtaking would need to have a build at least about as good as the current one.
- The overtaking would take place in 2 matches, in a Best-of-3 format, where the players would alternate between challenging and defending said Gym. In the event of a draw, the win will either go to the player with the most wins, or the current leader.
(Clarification: In match 1, the overtaking player would fight the current Gym as if they were challenging, in a best of 3. In match 2, the current leader would use any team they choose and challenge the overtaking player's Gym team.)

Regardless of outcome, the losing player would have a rather long cooldown before attempting to overtake said Gym. (Initial suggestion: 2 weeks+)

Pros:
- Ensures that overtaking is as fair as possible. The players would need to invest effort in both building and learning the monotype. Players alternating between defending and challenging ensures that they know the monotype as best as they can, being able to both defend it and break through it.

Cons:
- It's time consuming, relatively to the current method.
- If a leader only has battle-ready Pokemon for the Gym, they would be using a monotype team when acting as a challenger during the overtake process, which would put them at a disadvantage. It does however incentivize them to prepare a counter-team to their Gym, which raises the cap of how many Pokemon a leader can invest in their Gym, if they want to reach its full potential.
===============================

Minor Improvements.

Clicking on the name of the leader in /gym and /gym alt would autofill a /msg command to them.
Clicking on the Gym Type in the same interface would autofill a /seen command for the leader.